So what do you do when you find out that someone you know
has fallen sick ?
Well, this question becomes all the more important when you
are in India.
The very thought of going to a doctor may elicit a wince on anyone’s face. But
you get all the more baffled when the patient decides to take the treatment
into his own hands. In a country like India, there is no dearth of
alternative treatments and providers of such medicines.
And once you throw in loonies like Ramdev into the picture,
any sane person can be expected to tear out his hair in exasperation.
While ‘Ayurveda’ is well documented and officially taught as
a medical discipline, it becomes a totally different recipe when people like
Ramdev present it as a hodge-podge mixed with ‘Yoga’, religion and what not.
It has been known since long that ‘Yoga’ (when practiced
correctly) helps in maintaining physical and mental fitness. Something that
correlates with the primordial prevention of diseases (specially
non-communicable diseases) as per the practice of modern medicine. Also, it is
logical to expect the beneficial effects of some ‘Ayurvedic’ medicines (which
are mostly prepared from herbs) as even many modern medicines are herbal
products, like Quinine and Atropine.
But to expect ‘Yoga’ and ‘Ayurveda’ (and even ‘Homeopathy’)
to actually ‘cure’ diseases like cancer, diabetes, thyroid disorders and AIDS
is simply absurd. And that is what Ramdev has claimed to do quite often.
Cancers occur due to complex interaction of environmental
and genetic factors. How can a certain body posture and breathing pattern (as
in ‘Yoga’) affect the genetic changes that have already occurred in a person’s
DNA ? Even modern medicine finds it tough to ‘cure’ most cancers except those
solid tumors which are surgically resectable. Same goes for a disease like
‘Type-I diabetes’ which is due to an autoimmune destruction of
Insulin-secreting cells in the pancreas. Modern medicine does not claim to
‘cure’ diabetes but aims to control the symptoms and prevent its complications.
The limits of absurdity are crossed when Ramdev claims to
‘cure’ AIDS too. Being a communicable disease which is caused by a virus
entering into a person’s body, how does he expect his concoctions to strengthen
the CD4 lymphocytes of the body to fight an attacking virus particle ? Can any
form of ‘Yoga’ practiced by Ramdev ‘cure’ him of even ‘Malaria’ or ‘Dengue’
after an infective mosquito’s bite ?
Modern medicine has its limitations as drugs have adverse
effects on some individuals who are genetically predisposed towards those
effects. But medicinal drugs have scientifically proven mechanisms of action
against the diseases and disorders they are used for. Whereas, people like
Ramdev have no proof or logic to their claims except hearsay by their blind
followers. And to further their agenda, they associate medicine with religion,
language and nationality. Ramdev has often termed modern medicine as an
invention of the British and had even demanded for higher medical education to
be imparted in regional languages. I wrote about it then.
Sometime back, another of these frauds Asaram was seen to be
advising pregnant women to drink cow’s urine if they wanted to undergo painless
childbirth. Amazingly, these con-men have followers numbering hundreds of
thousands. So it should be no surprise to find their methods of treatment to be
so prevalent in the country.
There are drawbacks in modern medicine most of which are more about faulty prescriptions and practices by the practitioners. But no form of
alternative medicine can replace it in terms of emergencies. I won’t even
mention surgical emergencies. But even in medical emergencies like cardiac
failure, asthma, meningitis, shock and many more, one wouldn’t think of rushing
to an ‘Ayurvedic’ or ‘Homeopathy’ practitioner. What one needs at such a time
is emergency medical care.
No wonder Ramdev himself was rushed to the ICU of a hospital
dealing in modern medicine when he collapsed after one of his fasts. Years of
‘Yoga’ practice could not help him endure the physical effects of a fast let
alone help him recover.
Alternative forms of medicine have their benefits specially
as preventive measures. Even placebo effects may appear to be beneficial as in
case of ‘Homeopathy’. But for non-surgical absolute cures, we will have to wait
till the time ‘Nanomedicine’ makes its appearance in the medical world.
Image courtesy : Google Images
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ReplyDeleteChicky a.k.a. Kaddu :
ReplyDeleteWell, if you read the above post again, you will realize that it intended to expose frauds like Ramdev and Asaram who fool their blind followers in the name of Yoga and Ayurveda. You yourself say that Ramdev is not Yoga. But that is what I wrote too.
You said that “There is “There is a valid system behind modern medicine, AND there is a valid system behind Yoga, Ayurved”.
But even I agreed about the validity of Yoga and Ayurveda in the post above when I wrote “It has been known since long that ‘Yoga’ (when practiced correctly) helps in maintaining physical and mental fitness. Something that correlates with the primordial prevention of diseases (specially non-communicable diseases) as per the practice of modern medicine. Also, it is logical to expect the beneficial effects of some ‘Ayurvedic’ medicines (which are mostly prepared from herbs) as even many modern medicines are herbal products, like Quinine and Atropine.”
And then you say “As a matter of fact, there really is no cure for anything in allopathy, except for surgical procedures like setting bones in place, removing bullets etc. It can only subdue the symptoms of disease, it can never eliminate the disease from your body.”
Which makes you statement completely one-sided. Nowhere did I mention that Allopathy is completely curative. In fact, I wrote that “Even modern medicine finds it tough to ‘cure’ most cancers except those solid tumors which are surgically resectable.”
But can you deny the curative ability of Allopathy in specially infectious diseases (except viral and prions) ? As far as my knowledge goes, diseases like Malaria and Bacterial Meningitis are successfully cured by medicines. I never came across surgery to be needed for them. :D
Same goes for Tuberculosis. It is one of the most common diseases which can be completely cured by medicines alone. How do you expect Yoga to cure a person who is suffering from severe cerebral malaria ? And what about vaccinations ? Wasn’t Small Pox successfully eradicated by vaccines ? Why are we undergoing intense anti-Polio vaccination ? Do you expect Yoga to even prevent Polio let alone cure it ?
And as far as surgery goes, it is not restricted to joining broken bones or taking out bullets. There are many non-surgical diseases where surgeries provide cure. A very common example is peptic ulcer disease. Also, in case of obstructed labour, how do you expect a childbirth without a cesarian section ? I don’t think Yoga would be of any help. :P
As I wrote, Yoga has obvious benefits for mental and physical fitness. It helps in the maintenance of positive lifestyle which is the part of management of many diseases including Type 2 Diabetes. In fact, it is an effective form of primordial and primary prevention of diseases. But how do you expect Yoga to control the human DNA which is the basis of the genetic aspect of many diseases ? At the most, Yoga can suppress the symptoms of diseases that have already occurred. But it cannot cure unless it works at the molecular level. That is why Yoga has to be practiced regularly instead of just a few days or months till a disease is cured.
Also, Yoga has to be done by the person himself. At the most, an instructor or therapist can instruct about the procedure or asanas. But the person has to be physically capable to do that himself. Another person cannot do your Yoga for you. How can a physically debilitated person perform Yoga ? :-)
Lastly, for medical emergencies (that don’t even require a surgery), there is no alternative to modern medicine. If you come across a person lying on the road having a cardiac arrest, do you opt for Yoga or Homeopathy ? As I said, even Ramdev was rushed to an ICU when he collapsed after fasting. Even years of Yoga couldn’t help him tolerate a few hours of hypoglycemia, while he claims to cure severe hyperglycemia of Diabetes. :D
DeleteAbout your own experience with medicines, obviously you are genetically susceptible to the adverse effects of some Allopathic drugs. That doesn’t mean that those drugs are redundant to the entire human population. Can you provide any scientific/molecular explanation to the benefit you have received from homeopathy other than the results of your thyroid function tests ?
You may be surprised, but each Allopathic drug is developed after research on its molecular effects on the human body. We don’t have medicines in the market solely on hit and trial basis. But there is no such molecular mechanism of action proven yet for any Homeopathic drug. Ayurveda is much better in that regard as it has specific chemical constituents which have established molecular effect on the body. But homeopathy fails to do so.
You said, “Modern medicine may not be able to cure cancer, diabetes, thyroid etc., but alternative systems can. Do some research first.” If by research you mean finding instances of people claiming to be benefited by such systems, I don’t think it is of any use. Records of healing do not prove anything unless there is scientific proof.
Even disciples of certain gurus and babas can claim to be healed by their blessings. And even their medical investigations may back their claims. But I would like to see scientific/molecular proof of their blessings on the human body. :D Having a desired effect cannot be the sole basis of the scientific validity of a treatment or a drug. There are people who resort to smoking or consuming alcohol when they feel depressed. That gives them a high. But should we included cigarettes and alcohol in the list of anti-depressants ? That is absurd. :-)
I never criticized or dismissed the importance of alternative medicine. Alternative forms have their own importance in their proper perspective. But you cannot opt for alternatives in every stage of every disease. As for Reiki, unless you can provide any scientific evidence which is acceptable worldwide for the basis of its use, it cannot be taken to be valid even as a type of alternative medicine. I’ll be happy to accept it as a simple form of faith on spirituality. :-)
So I suggest you go through the above article once again to understand I never voiced any disbelief in any form of alternative medicines. I was merely comparing their uses in specific circumstances which you yourself agree when you say that they cannot be used in emergency situations. The same goes for diseases where the defect is genetic. And that is where frauds like Ramdev are making a fool of people.
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ReplyDeleteChicky a.k.a. Kaddu :
Delete"I'm not the one writing it off. Neither am I making any claims that it can cure everything. I have a neutral point-of-view about it, since I haven't studied its scope and limitations. I'm not making any assumptions about it."
Please refer to your first comment where you said "It can only subdue the symptoms of disease, it can never eliminate the disease from your body. But alternative medicine can and has." :-)
And if you didn't understand, I used the Ceasarian section example for the aspects of surgery beyond mere 'setting bones in place, removing bullets'. :-) Nowhere did I mention a ceasarian section to be a cure.
"How do you know Yoga cannot cure severe cerebral malaria? Do you have any documented proof that it has been tried on so many patients, but did not work on any of them?"
Once again, since Yoga has to be performed by the person himself, how do you expect an almost unconscious person to do it ? :D
"Maybe he can't do Yoga, but your post was about alternative therapies in general, not specific to Yoga, right?"
No ! My post was about frauds like Ramdev and Asaram. :-)
"Bootomline remains that for some cases, allopathy is better, and for some alternative treatment is better. Both are useful. Both are curative."
:D :D Wonder how Allopathy suddenly became curative when you initially said "there really is no cure for anything in allopathy" in your first comment.
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ReplyDeleteChicky a.k.a. Kaddu :
Delete"You say there is no such molecular mechanism proven for homeopath. Have you done enough research on it?"
Even the highly qualified Homeopaths cannot provide the basis of the actions of their medicines. :-)
"But even if it takes me 2 years of regular homeo treatment to be completely cured of asthma and thyroid, it's still better than the no-cure in modern medicine."
A person can only be "cured" of immunologically mediated diseases when the DNA of the immune cells stop producing mediators of inflammation. There is no evidence of homeopathy doing that. AND I never said Allopathy could, lest you accuse me of saying something I didn't. :P
"Why don't you come over to Jaipur and have a discussion with the homeopath I'm consulting?"
Good idea ! The next time you meet him do ask him about the mechanism of the medicine he gives you. By the way, does he even tell you the med's name ? Since you can easily search all the info about every Allopathic drug, it shouldn't be hard to know the specifics about a Homeopathy drug. Should it ? :D
"You don't have the scientific equipment at your disposal to witness how those healings happen. But it's all documented, with scientific explanations, yes! :D And the same "scientific" system works in Reiki too, and some other Eastern techniques like Accu-pressure etc."
I asked you for some evidence ! Did you find any ? No ? :D :D :D I rest my case. :P
"On the one hand you say you won't believe in a system unless you see "scientific" documentation. On the other u say that you "never voiced any disbelief in any form of alternative medicines". But then u also say they are only preventive and not curative! So confused!"
Its all so very clear. I DO NOT BELIEVE in a system until there is "scientific" basis. I never voiced any disbelief in those system means - I NEVER SAID IT OUT ALOUD (probably until now :P) because I never wanted to hurt people's faiths however bogus they may be.
The final bottom line is that its useless to continue debating when you couldn't even understand what my post was about. To make it clear one last time, it was about the misconceptions of different forms of treatment that people have, thanks to frauds like Ramdev and people who propagate and advertize that. :-)
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ReplyDeleteChicky a.k.a. Kaddu :
DeleteYes, I re-read the paragraph and realized that you were talking about Yoga there. So that's my fault. :-) And apologies. :D
As for the C-section, I never mentioned that the entire paragraph was about the 'cures' by surgery. Please re-read it where I made two separate statements about how surgery is necessary in situations where Yoga cannot help. Why you took it as 'cure' is something I could not understand.
"In that case, why are we arguing about anything?"
I really don't understand this too. Because it was you who came up with a comment accusing me of all that you have stated. Hence the discussion. :-)
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DeleteChicky a.k.a. Kaddu :
DeleteAnd I have already proved in my comments how it IS actually a placebo effect. :D
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ReplyDeleteChicky a.k.a. Kaddu :
DeleteYou have yourself answered so many of your own questions in your comment. :D
Firstly, you need to understand the difference between 'cure' and 'recovery'. What you have been talking about is remission and not cure.
Secondly, when you say that "I'm least concerned about what homeo meds I get as long as I don't have to suffer any side-effects from them.", you have yourself accepted the fact that homeopathy meds don't have side-effects.
Now, let alone logic, but common sense suggests that any foreign chemical (drug) which enters the body acts on millions of receptors. Those include the target receptors as well as non-target receptors (which produce the side-effects). So, how can something with such a vast distribution of action as Thyroid hormones and drugs not act on non-target receptors and produce side-effects? Think about it. :-)
Thirdly, about Reiki, how do you exactly practice Reiki when you don't even know about the human physiology ? What exactly do you expect to happen to the body once you are done with a specific Reiki session ? Though you say you check the results by the Allopathic investigative methods even after Reiki. Strange.
Quackery is when you practice any form of therapy without even knowing the basic physiology of the recipient's body. Having gone through the detailed syllabus of BHMS (Homeopathy curriculum) being taught in India, I found at least they are taught about the basic human Anatomy and Physiology. The point where they stumble is when they cannot explain the mechanism of the homeo drugs on the body.
I'll try to explain it in simple language in the next comment as this one is getting a bit too lengthy. :-)
“Accepted. So it logically follows then that you cannot believe in a system being "bogus" either unless there is "scientific" basis. Prove it "scientifically" that these systems are all bogus.”
DeleteOk. Suppose an illiterate villager comes to the city for the first time. Someone tells him to buy a desktop computer because it will warm his food. Since he doesn’t know the ABC of a computer, he is bound to believe the person and buy a desktop PC. But obviously, he would be unable to warm any food on a computer.
Then if a second person comes up and says that he’ll pour some oil in that PC after which it will work fine and warm his food, he’ll probably believe it too.
But an engineer who has studied computer hardware in detail would not accept if a person tells him that the RAM of his PC can be increased by fitting in a light bulb inside the cabinet.
Likewise, a non-medico who has never studied human biology will easily believe on any therapy since he doesn’t even know what exactly happens inside the body let alone inside a cell. But a doctor knows the basics of human functions right down to the molecular level. If you tell a doctor about a new treatment that has no scientific basis as per the molecular biology, he will obviously know if and when it is bogus. :-)
So, there has to be a physical, chemical or biological (ex. Viral) exposure to enable a change in the DNA of the cell. By common sense, please think which of those does meditation bring about. :-)
As for frauds like Ramdev and Asaram, if you don’t care anything about them, you shouldn’t have commented in the first place. Since my post was entirely about the misuse of ignorance about the therapeautic effects of various forms of medicine by these frauds and not about writing off any therapy (which is even remotely scientific).
“I don't even know the internal mechanism of our bodies! How things work in there? What needs to be monitored before and after a Reiki treatment?”
And yet you continue to practice Reiki. And you have to accept that much of your prejudice against Allopathy is due to your own tweaking of your medications without even having the knowledge of the physiology of substances as sensitive as Thyroid hormones. And because of that you seem to regard the entire medical (Allopathic) treatment of Thyroid disorders redundant for the human race. :-)
To be honest, I would be extremely happy if anyone is relieved of their illness by whatever therapy they take. Reiki, Homeopathy, Yoga or anything under the sun. If a person is happy and recovers of an illness that is always most welcome. Even if it is due to a person’s belief in God or some Guru. I only have problems when people start attributing fake logic to a therapy and mislead others to do the same.
So, as in the example I provided above, any such person who doesn't know a thing about computers wouldn't like to give up trying anything that he can to warm food on his desktop PC. He wouldn't leave any stone unturned. :D :D :D
DeleteBut a person well versed about a system wouldn't blink an eye before realizing something that is bogus. :-)
I hope this discussion ends here. If you intend to vouch for alternative treatments because of your 'belief' in them, I'm all for it. I simply have no problem with that. I'm no one to interfere in your beliefs. But if you want to put scientific arguments in their favor, I don't think we can make any headway by talking anymore on it.
You know what, I have to disagree about Homeopathy. I used to suffer from tonsils and would catch cold every other day. Instead of removing the tonsils, I was able to cure it with homeopathy for good. After past so many yrs, I have not fallen sick for more than once or twice in a year. So yeah I believe in homeopathy after that.
ReplyDeleteAvada Kedavra :
DeleteMaybe you read too much into the previous comments instead of the original post. :-) I have no problem with any form of medicine a person takes. In fact, if a person solely relies on praying to God and actually gets well, I'll be the happiest person. The only problem I have is when anyone tries to provide scientific logic behind unscientific things. I never intend to interfere with anyone's beliefs. :-)
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ReplyDeleteChicky a.k.a. Kaddu :
Delete"Btw, a friend in kanpur got rid of her 7 gall stones completely with homeo treatment for less than 3 months."
:D That's why I said there's no point in this discussion going on. Removal/dissolution/getting rid of gall stones is not a 'cure'. Gall stones are not a 'one-off' phenomenon but occur due to a disturbed balance in the gall bladder physiology of handling pigments and cholesterol. A 'cure' applies when a person is actually 'cured' of any such occurrence happening again. This is a simple example of remission. :-)
As I said before, a person may have remission of an illness even if he sits and sings bhajans in the temple. That does not prove the scientific basis of singing bhajans for 'cure'. Does it ? :D :D :D
Remission of symptoms are only the proof of the systems getting normal. It DOES NOT prove anything about the mechanism of action of a therapy.
My example of the computer hardware perfectly fits in here because we are discussing the merits of a therapy for a person who does not know the ABC of human physiology. So if you want to dismiss it just for the sake of convenience, so be it. :D
"And my troubles didn't start with tweaking my meds. They started with long term use of medicines prescribed to me for asthma, by allopathy doctors."
DeleteTwo things. Firstly, I never said your initial asthma problem started because of your tweaking the therapy. I specifically mentioned Thyroid which got aggravated by your own tweaking.
Secondly, I can accept that it is the fault of the prescribing doctor to prescribe you adversely affecting drugs. But you are bent on putting the entire blame on the drugs instead of the doctor. And thus concluding that similar treatment is useless for every human being.
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ReplyDeleteChicky a.k.a. Kaddu :
Delete:D :D :D :D :D
For the umptienth time, I will say it again. Since you still don't understand the difference between 'cure' and 'remission' its no use to keep on discussing it here.
There are NO tests that can conclusively infer that a person's gall bladder has been 'cured' of gall stones formations for ever. :D But I don't take it against you since you do not know about the details of such things.
:D 'Aggravated' !! Aggravated doesn't mean quantitative change towards a higher value in medicine. :P Even if one's illness complicates towards hypo to hyper or hyper to hypo, it will be called as 'aggravated'. I should have remembered that you aren't well versed with medical terminology and hence I should have refrained from using that word. :D
You have on multiple times accepted that you are clueless about how any sort of therapy works. And yet you are bent on arguing on whether it works or not. It may come as a surprise to you, but human physiological functions do not change with a change in therapy. A person's body cells will function in the same way irrespective of the type of therapy taken. Allopathy has proved how and what happens when a drug reaches a cell and beyond. There is no such proof for Homeopathy or Reiki. I wonder if you think that cells start behaving differently by different modes of therapy. :P :P
You want to make a direct jump from cause to effect. But any scientifically inclined person would take the cause -> mechanism (how and why) -> effect path. :-)
I know the basic molecular mechanism that takes place at the cellular level. And I'm open to anything that can work according to the proven scientific laws of Physics, Chemistry and Biology. That's why your last statement tops everything when you say that you are a science student, but still believe in faith healing therapies like Reiki. You don't even know what changes you are expecting in a body by the use of Reiki but still you say it works. :P :P :P
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ReplyDeleteChicky a.k.a. Kaddu :
Delete:D
"You'll rant here on your blog, calling these systems "bogus"... yet you wouldn't make the effort of actually trying to find out about the mechanisms of their working."
But you seemed to know everything about those systems, yet you couldn't even provide the slightest information about their mechanism even after my repeated asking. :-)
Tough and indigestible questions are usually uncomfortable. Since you have no answer to the questions I put to you, I'll give you the benefit of concealing your presumably valuable information with you. Though I really hoped you could share it not just for a close-minded person like me but for the benefit of the entire world. :-)
But isn't it a great idea to label a person close-minded and move on when you don't have any valid answers ? :D
"I'm not concerned with HOW any system of healing works. I'm only concerned with WHAT it can work for!"
It would have been great if you could at least divulge WHAT Reiki works for. To be precise, at least WHAT part of the body or WHAT cell of the body. Or even that if it works on the entire body as a whole. But alas, Reiki doesn't even know WHAT it is aiming to act on.
And yes, other than you, I have actually known at least two people very closely who believe and practice Reiki. And the very first thing which strikes me about them is their pleasant nature. Even if Reiki is something bogus, the least one expects from a faith healer is pleasantness in attitude and interaction. :-)
In fact, a person who believes and practices faith therapies like Reiki and Yoga is at least expected to have a good control on his temper and language. I guess the world is changing ever so quickly. :-)
Though Allopathic doctors have been known to be rude and inconsiderate. I guess I fit the description perfectly. Ah, I forgot to add the newly added character of closed-mindedness. :D :D :D
But yes, us rude, inconsiderate and closed-minded docs are more than happy to count the seeds so that others can peacefully eat their mangoes. :-)
Chicky a.k.a. Kaddu :
DeleteIsn't it funny ? Firstly you poke me through sms to publish your comments on my blog. And when I publish them along with replies, you go and delete them. :-) It would be much better if you could make up your mind before commenting on my blog in future.
come on Shobh...high time now, you must add an option to "Like" any of the comment...
DeleteAnonymous :
Delete:D Ok. I'll see if that can be done.
great, I am waiting for the feature so that I can 'like' some of your replies.
DeleteShobhit, I absolutely get what you are trying to say here. Alternative medicine has it's own limitations and it's foolish to believe that alternative medicine alone can cure AIDS or the big C. Why are you even bothering to explain or clarify. You are a doctor and much more qualified than most of us to know what is scientifically right.
ReplyDeleteAlka Gurha :
Delete:-) Alka Ma'am, being a person who goes by scientific logic, it comes as a sort of reflex action when someone questions me on science. And I think it's good if someone questions science as it emphasizes the validity of scientific logic even more. But sometimes (like in the discussion above) people have some other agenda instead of merely questioning science in a healthy way. And as you rightly said, I shouldn't bother to explain myself in such scenarios. :-)
Interesting.
ReplyDeleteRed Handed :
Delete:D I hope you mean the post. :P
unlike me, I was curious for the comments :P
DeleteUmmmm u want me to be honest? Ok...your comments section wont my attention. Post is good but hahahaghha the comments made me forget what I had to comment about it.
ReplyDeleteRed Handed :
Delete:P
Actually, the comments made me forget what I had written in the original post too. :D
And also...Let me suggest a person I know who is having chicken pox to cure it by doing yoga. Maybe after a month of strong yoga consisting of various bum hurting asanas anf nose hurtin pranayams, he will b cured coz chicken pox doesnt last long. And then we will have the documented evidence as to how yoga works. :/ :|
ReplyDeleteSeriously! What is wrong with people. As a lay man I say, yoga is for your own inner and physical fitness. Ayurveda and Homeopathy are preferred coz they dnt hv side effects. But when speedy recovery is required...I go for allopathy. Actually its a case wise situation. Sue me if m wrong.
Sorry had to comment. :D.
Red Handed :
DeleteLOL :D That's a new one... trying to cure chicken pox through yoga.
You actually said it ! Yoga is for physical and mental fitness and has it's role in the prevention of many illnesses. Just like morning-walk and healthy diet habits. But expecting it to 'cure' diseases (even viral) is going beyond sanity.
And it's not just about speedy recovery, but about having no other choices in many situations. Like for example, in cancers. As I said, it's fine if a person chooses a therapy of his or her liking. And even better if they actually recover. I'll be only too happy. But to pretend that there is some scientific mechanism behind it is absurd.
Your comments are always more than welcome. :D